Stihl 036 very hard to pull over

[smitty55]

I've had a used 036 for well over 10 years with no issues until this year. When I went to start it early this summer it was extremely hard to pull over to the point where I couldn't start it. With the plug removed it was easy to pull. I replaced the starter pulley, pawl and spring clip after seeing that possible cause in the forum but it hasn't solved the issue. I did get it running once and was able to restart it while it was hot but when I tried the other day I had the same problem. So I was hoping I could find a solution here so I don't have to take it into a shop for a costly repair. Tks

 

[Alan]

When you perform a hard pull with the plug in and notice excessive cylinder pressure, it typically points to issues like carbon buildup or a sticky decompression valve. It’s a good idea to check for carbon deposits on the piston crown and the exhaust port, and if your engine has one, make sure to verify that the valve is functioning properly. Additionally, don’t forget to inspect the flywheel key and check the ignition timing while you’re at it.

 

[smitty55]

Tks. I use seafoam in all my small engine fuel so I wouldn't think there'd be much in the way of carbon build up but I figure it would be an idea to check out that exhaust port just in case so I'll check that out. I did spray a bunch of seafoam in the cylinder earlier to clean out any carbon deposits but it didn't look bad. Also the flywheel had some buildup on the fins that I cleaned off but I didn't notice any excess play in it. One thing I did different last year was to start using Trufuel but after watching some videos from a small engine guy I follow he doesn't like using that product at all as he consistently sees a waxy build up on a filter screen and poor performance at times so he doesn't recommend using it all all. My problem here in my area is trying to find ethanol free premium fuel anymore, the reserves in southern Ontario are about the only places it can be found anymore. This saw always had good compression but I was always before able to start it without having to put it on the ground with my foot in the handle. Also my saw doesn't have a decompression valve like some 036 models do. Thing is this saw has always been flawless ever since I bought it, the only thing that has changed is that premixed fuel I used last year for the first time. It certainly is frustrating as I prefer to work on my own stuff if I can.

 

[Ken Green!]

hi @smitty55 bcs you mentioned using Trufuel for the first time last year and seeing content about a waxy buildup, I'd strongly suggest focusing your inspection on the fuel filter in the tank and any internal carburetor screens.

The residue from some premixes can cause fuel delivery issues, which, in turn, can cause the saw to run lean and get excessively hot. possibly leading to thermal expansion and piston to cylinder drag when cold. If fuel is restricted, it could also cause flooding

 

[STIHLTECH]

Ditch the tufuel. I take it out to make saws run better in the shop.
Ditch the seafoam. If you are worried about carbon, take it apart and clean it off. There are no overhaul in a can additives.
Diagnose fuel system. Pressure test the carb. No leaks.
Take a good look at the recoil again. Rotors known to split on the back side. Use correct diameter starter rope.

But, ditch the trufuel first. Works most of the time in the shop.

 

[smitty55]

Ditch the tufuel. I take it out to make saws run better in the shop.
Ditch the seafoam. If you are worried about carbon, take it apart and clean it off. There are no overhaul in a can additives.
Diagnose fuel system. Pressure test the carb. No leaks.
Take a good look at the recoil again. Rotors known to split on the back side. Use correct diameter starter rope.

But, ditch the trufuel first. Works most of the time in the shop.

Tks, I have ditched the trufuel for sure, the only reason I even used it in the first place was because it was ethanol free. As for seafoam, I'm a big fan and have been using it in all my small engine fuel as a stabilizer and to prevent phase separation for a long time and that won't change with all the ethanol fuels now, Ive seen it recommended by a lot of marine mechanics too and I've had great results using it in my leaf blower, string trimmer and chainsaws for a long time now. So one thing about this saw that is strange is that even though it it's a commercial duty quality saw it has a single pawl system with a metal spool in the pull start. Even the older 028 super had a dual pawl system way back. So I just went out on Saturday and bought a dual pawl spool with the heavier dogs and clip along with a new 3.5mm rope and a carb kit. So I'll install that and clean and lube the spring. I also saw a different starting technique in a video about hard to pull over saws that I will try as well. Basically it involves pulling the engine over slowly just enough to go through 3 strokes before trying to actually start the saw. Cheers

 

[STIHLTECH]

OK do what you want. I start about 30 saws a week. I told you what I know.
The amount of pawls makes not difference in the ease of starting. 056 and larger had one pawl.
Pull it like you are mad at it.

 

[smitty55]

OK do what you want. I start about 30 saws a week. I told you what I know.
The amount of pawls makes not difference in the ease of starting. 056 and larger had one pawl.
Pull it like you are mad at it.

Are you referring to my use of seafoam? Whether it cleans or not it's main use is as a fuel stabilizer so I'm certainly not going to stop using it. Like I said I can't get ethanol free premium fuel around here. As for the dual dog system when I pulled the pull starter cover off the nib on the old white dog had broken off and the shop only had the black pawls which wouldn't fit on the old metal spool so I made the switch to the plastic spool. I do like your last line though, maybe I wasn't putting enough oomph into my pull although I was always able to start it before holding it in the air and not on the ground with my foot in the handle. Cheers

 

[Paul]

I agree totally with Stihltec on the use of tufuel, Seafoam as a carbon remover. Pull the saw over slowly a couple times then when you go to start it, Mean It.
I always found it hard to tell my customers that they just weren’t pulling their saws over like they used to.
Happens to us all.
Once again try the thicker base gasket part number 1125 029 2301. It is 1mm instead of .5mm.

 

[smitty55]

I agree totally with Stihltec on the use of tufuel, Seafoam as a carbon remover. Pull the saw over slowly a couple times then when you go to start it, Mean It.
I always found it hard to tell my customers that they just weren’t pulling their saws over like they used to.
Happens to us all.
Once again try the thicker base gasket part number 1125 029 2301. It is 1mm instead of .5mm.

What gasket are you referring to, I haven't seen one mentioned?

Never mind, I looked it up. It's the cylinder gasket. I assume the thicker gasket will slightly decrease compression.

 

[Paul]

Correct
You will not notice any difference in power

 

[Mike K]

Tks, I have ditched the trufuel for sure, the only reason I even used it in the first place was because it was ethanol free. As for seafoam, I'm a big fan and have been using it in all my small engine fuel as a stabilizer and to prevent phase separation for a long time and that won't change with all the ethanol fuels now, Ive seen it recommended by a lot of marine mechanics too and I've had great results using it in my leaf blower, string trimmer and chainsaws for a long time now. So one thing about this saw that is strange is that even though it it's a commercial duty quality saw it has a single pawl system with a metal spool in the pull start. Even the older 028 super had a dual pawl system way back. So I just went out on Saturday and bought a dual pawl spool with the heavier dogs and clip along with a new 3.5mm rope and a carb kit. So I'll install that and clean and lube the spring. I also saw a different starting technique in a video about hard to pull over saws that I will try as well. Basically it involves pulling the engine over slowly just enough to go through 3 strokes before trying to actually start the saw. Cheers

I'm with you on Sea Foam. It's a tried and proven product.

 

[hardpan]

Are you referring to my use of seafoam? Whether it cleans or not it's main use is as a fuel stabilizer so I'm certainly not going to stop using it. Like I said I can't get ethanol free premium fuel around here. As for the dual dog system when I pulled the pull starter cover off the nib on the old white dog had broken off and the shop only had the black pawls which wouldn't fit on the old metal spool so I made the switch to the plastic spool. I do like your last line though, maybe I wasn't putting enough oomph into my pull although I was always able to start it before holding it in the air and not on the ground with my foot in the handle. Cheers

Seafoam good, truefuel bad, ethanol gas bad but there is some great gas at the airport, 100LL. Pilots seem to be picky about their fuel.

 

[Alan]

Seafoam good, truefuel bad, ethanol gas bad but there is some great gas at the airport, 100LL. Pilots seem to be picky about their fuel.

I totally see you point and did a little digging. Seafoam definitely has its loyal supporters, and ethanol gas can really cause issues for small engines if it’s left sitting for too long. TruFuel seems to be a bit of a gamble depending on who you talk to, but you’re right aviation folks are serious about their fuel quality.

100LL is known for being super clean and stable, but it does contain lead, which makes it a bit of a double-edged sword for small engines. Some people swear by it for storage or occasional use, while others steer clear because of the lead and potential long-term valve issues. But you’re spot on pilots have some of the strictest fuel standards, which is why avgas has that reputation for being top-notch.

I’m really curious to hear what everyone else has been using in their saws or small engines and how it’s worked out for them.